Watches, vintage watches in particular, are very much centered around relationships. Nowadays, those relationships can be built both online and offline. One company that has mastered this process is Amsterdam Vintage Watches. Not only have they built an enviable team with a chemistry that seeps through the screen, but also, a reputation for building relationships with their clients. As such, today we spoke with Ramon van der Lee (a.k.a. Ramon Soprano) from Amsterdam Vintage Watches about relationships and vintage watches; relationships with people and relationships with the timepieces themselves.
Ramon van der Lee
Andres Ibarguen: What is the origin story of Amsterdam Vintage Watches, when and how did it first start?
Ramon van der Lee: Paul Lijfering, who is the current owner’s (Jasper) father, has always had an interest in the finer things in life, especially when created by true craftsmen. He was able to combine this affinity with his creativity in his first store in the late ‘80s in Amsterdam. Accompanied by his wife, Angelina, they restored and created unique pieces of jewelry. There was always a special feeling for beauty from the past and so they pioneered in trading vintage jewelry and vintage watches.
The next chapter started when the previous shop nearly collapsed because of its bad foundation, which is one of the downsides of the picturesque, old buildings in Amsterdam. In 2009, the company moved from the red-light district to the Singel. In the years after, the focus shifted more towards watches, greatly encouraged by the next generation; the son of Paul and Angelina, Jasper Lijfering.
Jasper was intrigued by watches at the tender age of 12, being constantly surrounded by vintage treasures since his childhood. Ever since, his passion evolved and his knowledge developed. Jasper’s first love was a Rolex GMT-Master 1675 with a ‘Pepsi’ bezel.
Before taking over his parent’s shop in 2014, Jasper studied to become a jewelry entrepreneur at Schoonhoven College and worked at several jewelry shops in Amsterdam. However, he really learned the tricks of the trade working in the field. Under his wing, the focus was shifted to watches only.
AI: And how did the AVW team come together?
RL: All right, in a nutshell: Nick joined the team around 2016 and became responsible for marketing. He has a keen eye for online marketing. He provides the topics, the high-quality content (photos and videos), and is accountable for our success on YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook and our online community. Because of our online success, sales increased rapidly. The store was in need of more watches and therefore more manpower. That’s why Jasper decided to add some young blood to the team. Rutger and I joined the team in 2018. Rutger is a smart guy with much sales experience and an analytical- and business-oriented mindset. We joined the team simultaneously and professionalized the business in many ways. It is what it is nowadays because of our team’s effort. The faces of Jasper, Rutger, Nick and me became inseparable from Amsterdam Vintage Watches. Rutger and I were thrown in the deep but we quickly learned to swim. Now, we all have our own client bases and networks of people we work with together.
AI: Why did you decide to join? What did you see in the company?
RL: It was 2017 when I finished my bachelor’s degree in International Business and Languages at the Amsterdam School of International Business. I really did not know what I wanted to do afterwards, so I decided to travel like most young people. Coming back, I found myself in a pretty poor situation. I started working at a boring student company in sales. I was very unhappy with my job and how my life was going. However, I met an intern who happened to be a loyal follower of Amsterdam Vintage Watches. He was watching one of Jasper’s YouTube videos and that’s how I got introduced to the company. Funny how life goes, right? Opportunity slips in the backdoor disguised as misfortune.
The first YouTube video I watched, was the application video in which Jasper announced that AVW was looking to hire. I was hooked from that moment. I have always had an interest in the finer things in life, like sports cars, suits, cigars, and good wine. This company just suited me. I remember telling the intern I wanted to apply and he replied, “You’ll never be hired, you don’t know anything about watches.”
I watched some more videos and said, “F*ck it, you watch me!”
I quit my job the same day and one hour later I was making the video in my tiny studio in Amsterdam. I’m always like that. Either I go 100% and burn all my bridges so there’s no way back or I don’t take action at all. A couple of weeks later Jasper told me he wanted to meet me. We had some coffee (and some beers); we clicked and the rest is history.
AI: What’s your personal story with vintage watches? When did you first get ‘the bug’?
RL: Honestly, I did not know jack sh*t about (vintage) watches when I started working here. One thing I did know was: you got to start somewhere. So, why not start directly in the field? Of course, you have got to have some affinity with the products (which I had) but the interest really came on the job.
AI: The watch industry, and even more so vintage watches, is very focused on relationships. How do you keep up with the clients that you’re closest with?
RL: It all boils down to what type of person you are and what type of person the client is. I consider myself to be a very open and amicable guy. Naturally, I treat my customers like friends, and I can honestly say that most of them actually became friends of mine. Therefore, most of my clients are people who enjoy this warm and friendly approach. Whereas Rutger, for example, has more of a business-oriented attitude and customers who feel comfortable with that.
So, what I like to do is to maintain contact with my clients as friends. This can be through various ways and channels and during different times (I’m no 9-to-5 guy). Because of our exposure on Instagram we are often invited for events and openings. I always try to bring clients to these occasions. For example, in December 2019, Rico Verhoeven and Badr Hari faced each other during the world heavyweight championship in kickboxing. We were invited and I took a client of mine with me. These are moments that people will never forget. Furthermore, we take our clients for lunch and dinner on a regular basis. Also, it’s easy to invite clients during or after working hours at the boutique for coffee, a beer, or a cigar. This is something we do almost every day.
AI: What is your general model for maintaining a strong inventory of interesting timepieces?
RL: Tricks of the trade…Because of our social media exposure and the fact that people have a relationship with the people behind the company, we get offered hundreds of watches each day. People trust us and are more likely to do business with persons rather than organizations. Also, most big collectors and dealers, in and outside the Netherlands, know us and like to do business with us. Particularly in Amsterdam, we’ve got the game on lock. Furthermore, Jasper and his father have developed a strong network over the years.
AI: What are the common reasons for which people will part ways with their vintage watches?
RL: There are many reasons. For example, we bought a Double Red Sea-Dweller (ref. 1665). The guy we bought it from, had purchased the watch back in the day at the dealer for 700 Dutch guilders. He knew the watch was worth a lot more nowadays and didn’t feel comfortable wearing it anymore. We sold the watch for €41,200.
AI: Do you think there is a point in every collector’s journey at which they develop an interest in vintage watches?
RL: No. I believe people have different reasons for collecting watches. To be interested in vintage watches you’ve got to have a certain appreciation for the past, a certain tolerance towards products that have been used.
Ramon van der Lee
AI: What do you think draws a collector to a particular vintage watch?
RL: I would say there are several stages of attraction (not in sequence):
Aesthetics: often, this is the first impression, so the first stage. When you see a watch, you have to like it. However, this is something that could also grow on you. Therefore, it doesn’t necessarily have to be the first stage. Take, for example, the Patek Philippe Aquanaut. I didn’t like it at first. An oddly-shaped case, an outrageous dial, a rubber strap. Over time, I started to enjoy it and now I love it! How did that happen? That’s my second point.
Association: personally, I started to enjoy it as I saw the watch in a certain setting. I believe I saw some guy wearing it while hanging on the beach with a jet-ski. I know it sounds lame but I started to associate the watch with this setting and it just seemed to make sense. It looked like the perfect watch for this occasion and it started to grow on me.
History: I did some research and found out the cool story behind the Aquanaut. Why it got introduced and why it made sense for Patek Philippe to launch such a watch at the end of the ‘90s. It had to do with the dot com boom, young millionaires with lavish lifestyles, a new smart/business-casual style. I liked it.
Rarity: some watches just become cool because they are rare or at least, harder to obtain. Again, the Aquanaut. I would never buy a watch with a blue strap. Probably, not even with a blue dial. I just don’t like the colour blue. However, the Aquanaut 5066 ‘Limited Japan Edition’ has both and I absolutely fell in love with it.
AI: Recently, we’ve heard of price decreases in the pre-owned and new market but also increases in online activity for online stores, what effects have you perceived on the vintage watch market, in specific?
RL: Pricewise, we have experienced the opposite: purchase prices have appreciated slightly as watches are harder to get. Normally, we work together with traders and collectors worldwide but right now it’s difficult to meet in person. Watches have to be shipped, which only allows for small batches. Our selling prices have increased at the normal pace. We already do lots of online business, but we have experienced a slight increase in our online sales. The market for modern watches definitely took a hit. In my opinion, this shows that prices were off the charts.
AI: Is there any type (divers, chronographs etc.) or brand of vintage watches that have been getting extra attention lately?
RL: Cartier. We’ve been pushing Cartier from the start. I even dare to say that we (sort of) created the trend. Now we see that people are catching up and are discovering the ‘hidden treasures’ of this romantic brand. For collectors, Cartier is very interesting as there is so much unexplored. Instagram pages dedicated to Cartier are coming up. Besides that, the brand has a wide variety of models and I believe there is a Cartier watch for everyone. Also, amongst the ladies, this brand is getting more popular than it already was.
AI: Do you see any specific challenges in the coming months, and perhaps years, for the vintage watch market given the current economic climate?
RL: Due to the COVID-19 situation purchasing watches is a bit more difficult (like I said before). However, I like to have a bright perspective and I think – thanks to things getting back to normal – everything’s going to be all right. Other specific challenges could be that it’s probably going to get more difficult to find certain, high-quality pieces. But time will tell.
AI: What’s your long-term view of the vintage watch segment? Will it continue to grow?
RL: It will continue to grow as long as we continue doing business our way (which we will): transparently and honestly doing what we love, which is providing people with the best, high-quality, vintage watches, educating and entertaining our community, and making sure that people who destroy the hobby are dealt with.
Thank you for sharing your story with us, Ramon.